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Message board > Engines > Mounting an Auxiliary engine Hardy 20

Message 26 of 26
Posted by member derek on Sunday 5 September 2021

Again Keith, many thanks, wish you were somewhere near me, I could find you job!

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Message 25 of 26
Posted by member Keith Lewcock on Sunday 5 September 2021

Hi Derek. The bracket you are looking at is the same as I have fitted. Even with a 27kg 6hp 4 stroke I have, at the end of the drop, to push it down against the springs to get it into the water at its lowest point. When lifting the OB back up it almost comes up of its own accord. It is really heavy duty and a real help for me. The fasteners are all imperial but because the fixing bolts have a square under the bolt head much easier to fit. Metric fasteners will not fit. Lastly the drop is not as great as some of the alternatives so positioning at the right height is important. The angle of the clamping pad can be adjusted to accomodate the angle of the transom. Slightly fiddly. I fibreglassed a 20mm reinforcing plywood, the largest I could fit inside the locker and another plywood plate on the outside. (Buy 20mm plywood on ebay!). Fibreglassing kits on ebay are quite cheap and easy to use. I suggest you check the weight of the 4hp and if is close to 27kgs then the 4 spring bracket may be enough. However for a lighter motor try a lighter weight bracket. I note the alternative OB bracket on the website only has one spring. I really do not think this helps lowering and raising the OB. Look for a long shaft with an integrated fuel tank. Hope this deluge of information is of help. Keith

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Message 24 of 26
Posted by member derek on Saturday 4 September 2021

Keith, many thanks for the advice. I had been looking at the 4 spring bracket on the boatfittings.co.uk website. It seems pretty robust. I'm also considering how to strengthen the transom, I was going to put a stainless steel backing plate inside the gas locker but now not sure that will be sufficient. The project gets bigger!!!

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Message 23 of 26
Posted by member Keith Lewcock on Saturday 4 September 2021

Hi Derek. 4hp on Inland waterways (4 stroke?) is probably just enough however I would go for the strongest bracket you can afford. At least two springs. A 6hp mercury weighs 27 kilos and I was almost unable to lift it back up.One spring was useless. I would ignore the maximum HP recommended with each bracket. Most larger OBs would be just too heavy to lift and the real issue is the strength and reinforcing of your transom. (I now have a USA made bracket with four springs). The prop should operate under the hull to be efficient and the cavitation plate be in the water. However this position but may prevent you lifting the OB into the horizontal position. As a compromise I chock my OB part way up up with a piece of plastic pipe. I recommend emptying the carb over the winter particularly if using the new 10% ethanol fuel and I also recommend starting the OB regularly. Drifting in busy waterways whilst you search for the kill switch can be testing and most small carburetor OBs will require a few pulls to get the fuel into the carbs. Most OB's have a shallow water lock which allows you to still use the OB but in a slightly raised position. Still I hope you only use it for pleasure!

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Message 22 of 26
Posted by member derek on Friday 3 September 2021

Chris, many thanks for that information. Now actively looking for 4hp outboard!

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Message 21 of 26
Posted by member Chris Bennett on Thursday 2 September 2021

Thanks Derek. The "Trem" type, of which there are a few variants, mine being aluminium with the longer 355mm lift. As you say, many go up only to 300mm and the extra 55 helps - even then, it's just enough. The design with its inbuilt handle is also helpful.

An example here: https://www.force4.co.uk/item/Force-4/Aluminium-Outboard-Motor-Bracket-Wood-Pad-upto-6HP/E2V

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Message 20 of 26
Posted by member Derek on Thursday 2 September 2021

Thanks Chris, valuable advice. I’m on the lookout for a 4hp or similar. Which bracket did you use? There’s a few on the market some of which I’m not sure will lift the auxiliary sufficiently when not in use.

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Message 19 of 26
Posted by member Chris Bennett on Thursday 2 September 2021

I'll just add - look around for a bargain, especially in winter. My 6hp was bought brand-new for very much less than retail from someone who had bought and not used it, and I've seen other examples, including one sold on here.

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Message 18 of 26
Posted by member Chris Bennett on Thursday 2 September 2021

As a nearish neighbour of Nick's with a long shaft 6hp Mercury Mariner fitted to a Pilot on the Great Ouse, I can add my recommendation for it to Richard's. It's ideal for weight and power to get you a reasonable distance if necessary. In my view a 4hp would be OK too, but I have a 2hp for a Canadian canoe and it would not be sufficient for the Pilot. If you'd like my views on mounting it I'm happy to share them (amounts to having bracket high enough to clear the shaft from the water, six decent stainless bolts and ideally a block both sides of the hull). I am working out a better security solution than the classic outboard lock bar, as it doesn't allow the motor bracket to retract as far as it otherwise would (a minor issue). I am a convert to carrying an auxiliary since we had a very uncertain journey back along the Old West River with an internally-perished fuel primer bulb. Lots of unscheduled stops to admire the wildlife that day... As a useful aside, there are situations in which steering manually from the transom can be of use!

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Message 17 of 26
Posted by member derek on Saturday 28 August 2021

I am in a similar situation to Nick, Hardy Pilot, no coastal or estuary. I also have 20hp outboard. I know a 6hp auxiliary would do the job but I would prefer to go smaller if only for reasons of cost. what's the smallest auxiliary that would do the "get you home" job on benign inland waterways?

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Message 16 of 26
Posted by member Richard on Friday 27 August 2021

Hi Nick, I have a 6HP Mercury / Mariner and it pushes my Hardy 20 absolutely fine. Im in coastal waters in Falmouth, so if you're on the inland waterways I would expect you to have no issues in an emergency - not forgetting that an auxiliary is really just to get you out of trouble :-)

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Message 15 of 26
Posted by member Nick Askham on Thursday 26 August 2021

Hello - I would appreciate some help regarding an auxiliary engine. I have a Pilot with a 20hp Honda and am wondering about getting a small outboard as a back up. I have considered joining the River, Canal Rescue but that would potentially cost around £200 a year. I have thus wondered about one of the small Honda's or Suzuki's of about 2.5hp. As my boating is only on slow moving fenland rivers I thus wonder if a small outboard like that would be sufficient to get me back to base, or the nearest marina, in the event of my main outboard failing. Any help would be gratefully appreciated.
Regards and thanks, Nick.

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Message 14 of 26
Posted by member Keith Lewcock on Tuesday 13 April 2021

I noted the comments about the auxilliary not functioning by Rob. I have a 2018 6hp mercury for use as an auxilliary. As my boat is to be launched on Thursday 15th I thought I should make sure it runs. Despite being less than 2 years old and only run for about an hour it failed to even fire. The spark plug was dry. Reluctantly I took the carburetor off and removed the float chamber. The main jet was totally blocked with crud. Having cleaned it and refitted the engine started immediataly. Lots of helpful videos on Youtube. Problem probably caused by Ethanol in the fuel left over the winter. I also found out that there is a drain plug to drain fuel from the float chamber which is very helpful.
Although the Mercury has its own fuel tank I have bought a fuel pipe to connect it to my main fuel tanks. Again on advice from Rob. The main fuel for my main Evinrude engine is higher octane (not Ethanol free) from a main supplier and has recommended additives. I will be checking over the winter and increasing any additive left in the main fuel tanks or emptying them into a car. I also have installed a very heavy outboard bracket with 4 springs. The auxiliary weighs 27kgs.

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Message 13 of 26
Posted by member Rob on Tuesday 6 April 2021

* Hi
This is a picture of the engine inverted. I think my outboard bracket has four different levels I can use. I have to turn the outboard 90 degrees to be able to tilt it like this.

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Message 12 of 26
Posted by member Rob on Monday 5 April 2021

Further to my last comment, I am sure you can have the back up engine positioned so that it is deep enough to control the boat and can be lifted clear of the water when not in use. However it may involve buying a different outboard bracket. I will take some pictures when I am next a the boat.

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Message 11 of 26
Posted by member Rob on Monday 5 April 2021

Hi
i don't know if this has been mentioned but looking at the picture from Keith Lewcock (message 7 of 10) answers it.
I have a 4 stroke, 5hp Mercury which is the same as the Mariner except for the label on the outside. The power head is a Tohatsu on all Mariner/Mercury 4 stroke engines between 4 to 6hp. When I am going along with my main 50hp Mariner 4 stroke, I have my 5hp engine like Keith's picture. You pull it up with the bracket, then loosen the steering lock, then turn it 90 degrees, then lock it again. This way it is out of the water. This may be dependant on what sort of auxiliary bracket you have. It is important that the engine when really needed can go deep enough in the water to power the boat.
On a similar note, in my opinion it is not sufficient to just start up your auxiliary engine(back up engine) and run it for 10 minutes. I used to do this and when I really need my back up engine it stopped because the marina that repaired the carburettor did not do a good job and I only found this out after 1 mile. Now on my hardly used 2010 engine. I regularly now will test the back up engine for 2 miles, with the steering on the back up engine locked and then use the main engine to steer with.
I also think it is very important to not just have an internal fuel tank on the back up engine, as I once needed the back up engine for 5 miles when my main engine developed a crack in the petrol pump. Imagine trying to lean over the stern of the boat to top up the back up engine where there is no where to moor up, in rough water. ideally try and get a back up engine with the same petrol pipe connectors as the main engine, as you could need to start the back up engine in a hurry.

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Message 10 of 26
Posted by member Caroline Munro on Sunday 4 April 2021

Hi Keith,
We just came up with that solution today. We have raised and wider the wood on the bracket today. With the engine only having one click up we are going to jam something in it. (Big eye roll) Good to know it that others had to resort to that too! Fab to see a picture Thank you so much.
Might be worth noting, anyone thinking about an Auxiliary that the mariners don't click up.
Will post my soulution when she is put back together
Caroline

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Message 9 of 26
Posted by member Keith Lewcock on Wednesday 31 March 2021

Hi Caroline. Getting the auxilliary outboard to work as efficiently as possible leaves you with few choices about its resting position in a boat with a deep transom like the Hardy 20. Locating the outboard high enough to allow it to go into the horizontal position means the prop and cavitation plate will be above the bottom of the hull. It may not matter in non-tidal waters but in tidal waters you want the auxilliary to perform at maximum efficiency.
It is probable the one click you mention is to allow the outboard to run in shallow water in an emergency. The Mercury also has this one click but It is not enough to raise the prop out of the water even with the outboard bracket at maximum height and therefore we had to compromise with a piece of plastic pipe which worked well.
Good luck.

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Message 8 of 26
Posted by member Caroline Munro on Tuesday 30 March 2021

Hi Keith,
We just came up with that solution today. We have raised and wider the wood on the bracket today. With the engine only having one click up we are going to jam something in it. (Big eye roll) Good to know it that others had to resort to that too! Fab to see a picture Thank you so much.
Might be worth noting, anyone thinking about an Auxiliary that the mariners don't click up.
Will post my soulution when she is put back together
Caroline

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Message 7 of 26
Posted by member Keith Lewcock on Tuesday 30 March 2021

* Not sure if you got the photo. See attached.

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Message 6 of 26
Posted by member Keith Lewcock on Tuesday 30 March 2021

Hi Caroline. I had a mercury 6hp 4 stroke longshaft and fitted an outboard bracket to my Hardy 20 River Pilot. Ideally the aux. outboard cavitation plate should be level with the bottom of the boat so the prop can be most efficient if required. This we did but unfortunately when under power from the main outboard the auxilliary prop dragged in the wash. It was also only possible to steer the auxilliary with the tiller almost vertical. We lifted the auxilliary outboard bracket up, reinforced the inside of the transom and added some packing between the bracket and transom. We still could not lift the engine into the horizontal position but used a plastic pipe to raise the engine enough to keep it clear of the water. In one emergency we had to use the auxilliary when a faulty valve on the petrol tank caused the main outboard to stop. The auxilliary engine worked very well but we had to steer with the tiller close to vertical although we did use the main engine for some primitive steering. I think it is unlikely that you will be able to position the auxillary so that it can be horizontal when not needed but at the right depth when needed. I also made the mistake of fitting a lightweight outboard bracket. The Mercury engine weighs approx. 25kg and was incredibly difficult to raise and lower. Get a substantial bracket. My new boat has a bracket with four springs. Also quite hard to find info on the 'drop' of the auxillary bracket. See the photo atached and hope this helps.

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Message 5 of 26
Posted by member Caroline Munro on Sunday 28 March 2021

Thanks Graham :),

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Message 4 of 26
Posted by member Graham Clay on Saturday 27 March 2021

* Better photo of the sprung bracket on Lorien; sorry, seems to be rotated 90 degrees!

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Message 3 of 26
Posted by member Caroline Munro on Thursday 25 March 2021

Thanks Graham

I'll will have a look at the sprung brackets :)

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Message 2 of 26
Posted by member Graham Clay on Thursday 25 March 2021

* Hi,
We have a Pilot SE 20ft. The auxiliary outboard bracket fitted to her is a sprung type, so as well as tilting the outboard leg, the whole bracket can move up and down by maybe a foot. That seems to be enough to lift the leg clear of the water?
I don't have a great photo, but this might give you an idea?
Graham

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Message 1 of 26
Posted by member Caroline Munro on Tuesday 23 March 2021

Hello All
First Post.

We bought a Hardy 20 last year during lockdown, we cleaned her up and got her onto the water as soon as we could... perhaps a little hasty! It's our first boat so we were excited and very very green.

Leaks and engine problems were our main issues (& learning how to sail). With no auxiliary we had to be towed home on our first trip out, the learningexperiencestarted quickly. We started a hunt for a long shift auxiliary... they were like hens teeth!
We finallt got one just as the season ended, but it draggs in the water? We can't seem to get it lifted high enough due to the shape of the boat.. what have you done ?

Following 3 engine failures we knew we needed a newer and more powerful engine and a new one is now being fitted.

Next challenge and Post is about leaks :( The toilet, the windows screws, the aerial ...
Oh and how to get a dog on and off a boat... the wee puppy in November is now big !

Many thanks in anticipation

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